Marketing B2B Technology

Emir Zecovic, an experienced marketing professional in the B2B and SaaS space, joins Mike for a discussion about how to market B2B technology products.
Emir highlights how marketers often miss opportunities by not focussing on large non-English speaking markets like South America and India. He shares why marketers should be data-obsessed to understand what influences the buying journey, and why working within start-ups may offer new marketers greater career opportunities. 
 
About TextGrid, 12min and OpenGraph
TextGrid offers communication APIs for SMS, MMS, voice and email. With cloud communications, businesses are empowered to build, scale and innovate.
12min is a platform that chooses, reads and summarises the most important non-fiction books.
OpenGraph generates meta tags and social media previews for any URL on the web in a few simple steps.
 
About Emir
Emir Zecovic is CMO at 12min and is currently also in transition between roles as CMO at TextGrid and Senior Business Development Consultant at OpenGraph. He is a determined, data-driven and versatile marketer with over 7 years of experience in managing teams, devising and implementing growth strategies for SaaS B2B and B2C companies.
 
Time Stamps
[00:51.1] – Emir shares how he got to this point in his career.
[04:46.8] – Emir discusses why it is important not to overlook non-English speaking markets.
[08:49.7] – Emir shares his approach to marketing as a CMO.
[16:27.0] – How does Emir encourage form fills?
[20:26.8] – What impact is AI going to have on the industry.
[23:58.1] – Emir offers some career advice to new marketeers.
[26:42.9] – Emir’s contact details.
 
Quotes
“Trying to be as international as possible in a business is always a good idea, don't underestimate countries you're not familiar with.” Mike Maynard, Managing Director at Napier.
“I've heard people say that they don't like Google Ads or Facebook ads or SEO, but I doubt anybody has ever said that they regret having a good email list” Emir Zecovic, CMO at 12min
 
Follow Emir:
Emir Zecovic on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/emir-zecovic-074882166/
TextGrid Website: https://textgrid.com/
TextGird LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/textgrid/
OpenGraph Website: https://www.opengraph.xyz/
 
Follow Mike:
Mike Maynard on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/mikemaynard/
Napier website: https://www.napierb2b.com/
Napier LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/napier-partnership-limited/
 
If you enjoyed this episode, be sure to subscribe to our podcast for more discussions about the latest in Marketing B2B Tech and connect with us on social media to stay updated on upcoming episodes. We'd also appreciate it if you could leave us a review on your favourite podcast platform.
Want more? Check out Napier’s other podcast - The Marketing Automation Moment: https://podcasts.apple.com/ua/podcast/the-marketing-automation-moment-podcast/id1659211547

Sean Campbell, CEO and Founder of Cascade Insights, is the latest guest to join Mike Maynard for the Marketing B2B Technology podcast. Sean discusses the benefits of using market research platforms, explores the pros and cons of qualitative versus quantitative data, and talks about the challenges of getting research responses within the B2B industry.
 
About Cascade Insights
Cascade Insights empowers B2B technology companies with customized market research and marketing services. For over a decade, we’ve served Fortune 500 enterprises like Microsoft, Adobe, IBM, Dell Technologies, AWS, and Google as well as mid-markets and startups.
In an industry that’s ever-changing, we deliver the tools and resources to help businesses navigate the market and seize opportunities for growth. Want to learn how well your brand resonates with buyers, or why your superior product keeps losing to a competitor? Maybe you need updated messaging to win more deals and generate more leads.
 
About Sean
Sean has been training, mentoring, and educating all his life. An exceptionally well-regarded conference speaker and author, Sean has delivered talks for Fortune 50 companies and top-tier conferences. He has also been the author of several books on technical and business topics.
Sean has also been a professional services firm owner for over 20 years. He is passionate about running a remote-first company, and has been doing so long before it was cool – dating back to the 20th century!
His professional services work has spanned consulting engagements with the Fortune 50 and startups you have heard of; the sale of his first professional services company, and the growth of delivery, sales, marketing, and operational practices inside professional services firms.
 
Time Stamps
[00:41.5] – Sean discusses his career and what lead him to market research.
[03:54.0] – Sean talks about Cascade Insights, what it is and its capabilities.
[06:09.8] – Sean discusses why he chose to focus on the B2B industry.
[16.10.4] – What are the benefits of using a market research platform vs in-house research?  
[19:39.7] – Sean shares how he thinks market research is going to change in the future.
[21.59.7] – What advice would you give to someone joining the profession?
[26:07.2] – Sean’s contact details.
 
Follow Sean:
Sean Campbell on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/seancampbell/
Cascade Insights website: https://www.cascadeinsights.com/
Cascade Insights on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/cascade-insights/
 
Follow Mike:
Mike Maynard on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/mikemaynard/
Napier website: https://www.napierb2b.com/
Napier LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/napier-partnership-limited/
 
If you enjoyed this episode, be sure to subscribe to our podcast for more discussions about the latest in Marketing B2B Tech and connect with us on social media to stay updated on upcoming episodes. We'd also appreciate it if you could leave us a review on your favourite podcast platform.
Want more? Check out Napier’s other podcast - The Marketing Automation Moment: https://podcasts.apple.com/ua/podcast/the-marketing-automation-moment-podcast/id1659211547
 
 
 
 
 

How can marketing and sales work together? Darren Mitchell, Sales Leader and host of the Exceptional Sales Leader Podcast, joins Mike Maynard to discuss sales enablement and how sales and marketing teams can work together to provide true value to prospects throughout the buyer journey.
Darren shares the career journey that led him to become a sales leader, he explains what sales enablement means and shares his thoughts on why current team structures may negatively impact buyer experience.
 
About Darren
Darren Mitchell is an expert in sales with a successful career in corporate sales, sales management, people leadership, people development and leadership coaching. Darren now works with sales leaders and their teams to create and implement sales leadership plans that deliver outstanding sales and revenue results.
 
Time Stamps
[00:55.5] – Darren shares how his career started
[03:50.3] – What is sales enablement? Darren explains.
[06:41.8] – How can marketing and sales work together?
[14:17.5] – What role should tools play in the sales process?  
[23:06.5] – Darren shares the advice he would give to a young person starting their career.
[25:17.2] – Darren’s contact details.
 
Quotes
“I think sometimes people look at tools like the be all and end all and they forget that people by from people.” Darren Mitchel, Sales Leader.
 
Follow Darren:
Darren Mitchell on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/sales-leadership-coach/
Darren’s website: https://darrenmitchell.com.au/about-darren/  
 
Follow Mike:
Mike Maynard on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/mikemaynard/
Napier website: https://www.napierb2b.com/
Napier LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/napier-partnership-limited/
 
If you enjoyed this episode, be sure to subscribe to our podcast for more discussions about the latest in Marketing B2B Tech and connect with us on social media to stay updated on upcoming episodes. We'd also appreciate it if you could leave us a review on your favourite podcast platform.
Want more? Check out Napier’s other podcast - The Marketing Automation Moment: https://podcasts.apple.com/ua/podcast/the-marketing-automation-moment-podcast/id1659211547

Inge Boubez, Director of Enterprise Marketing at Moz, is the latest guest to join the Marketing B2B Technology podcast. Inge explains how, although the fundamentals of SEO haven't changed, the rise in AI may have an impact in the industry and offers some thoughts on how marketers can address the potential challenges. She discusses both the Moz and STAT Search Analytics platforms, their functionality and how marketers can get the most out of the platforms.
 
About STAT Search Analytics
Inge focusses on STAT Search Analytics, a product by Moz. STAT is a SERP tracking and analytics platform for tackling large-scale SEO with accuracy and ease. STAT delivers precision SERP insights, fresh each day, helping unlock new opportunities, drive more visibility, and prove the value of SEO.
 
About Inge
Inge brings over two decades of technology marketing expertise to her role as Director of Enterprise Marketing at Moz, where she focuses on STAT Search Analytics. Her extensive career has covered a wide range of settings, from innovative startups and small-to-medium-sized businesses to global industry leaders. Notably, Inge has contributed significantly at SAP and Layer 7 Technologies (which was acquired by Computer Associates) before her tenure at Moz. Her broad skill set includes demand generation, branding, customer engagement, channel strategy, global event management, and public relations, making her a highly respected and well versed professional in the marketing field.
 
Time Stamps
[00:48.8] – Inge shares her career journey and explains how Moz and STAT fit into Ziff Davis.
[03:56.5] – How can STAT help with SEO? Inge explains.
[07:39.0] – Inge explains who can use STAT and the training resources available.
[12:25.0] – Inge discusses some of the common mistakes made when optimising for search engines.
[13:52.9] – The potential impact of AI on SEO
[18:07.9] – How is SEO going to change in the future?
[25:23.1] – Inge’s contact details.
 
Quotes
“We're not just reaching out. We're engaging and understanding what makes our audience tick. And that's the future of marketing.” Inge Boubez, Director of Enterprise Marketing at Moz.
“Keep your eyes peeled for the next big thing, but don't forget that it's all about connecting with people on a human level. We're all humans, whether we're talking to the different personas like CEOs, CFOs, SEOs all over the world, we're all still humans.” Inge Boubez, Director of Enterprise Marketing at Moz.
“We're helping SEO professionals understand their unique search landscape and how they're positioned in it, and also helping them find new search opportunities and strategies.” Inge Boubez, Director of Enterprise Marketing at Moz.
 
Follow Inge:
Inge Boubez on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/inge-boubez/
STAT Search Analytics website: https://getstat.com/napier/
STAT Search Analytics on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/stat-search-analytics/
STAT Search Analytics on Twitter: https://twitter.com/getSTAT
STAT Search Analytics on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/getstat/
Moz website: https://moz.com/
Moz on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/moz/
 
Follow Mike:
Mike Maynard on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/mikemaynard/
Napier website: https://www.napierb2b.com/
Napier LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/napier-partnership-limited/
If you enjoyed this episode, be sure to subscribe to our podcast for more discussions about the latest in Marketing B2B Tech and connect with us on social media to stay updated on upcoming episodes. We'd also appreciate it if you could leave us a review on your favourite podcast platform.
Want more? Check out Napier’s other podcast - The Marketing Automation Moment: https://podcasts.apple.com/ua/podcast/the-marketing-automation-moment-podcast/id1659211547

Staying within brand guidelines can be a challenge, and as the use of AI in marketing rises, this will become increasingly difficult. Rob May, founder of BrandGuard, explains how solving user challenges transformed his platform from what was initially an advertising platform into an entirely different product that uses AI to identify branding issues.
He shares his career journey, how the rise in generative AI drew him back into the start-up space, how different AI models work, and the impact he believes AI will have over the next five years.
 
About BrandGuard
BrandGuard is an AI-powered brand governance platform that helps ensure brand consistency in customer facing assets, such as advertisements, generated by both humans and machines.
 
About Rob
Rob May is the founder and CEO of BrandGuard and is a leading figure in the field of generative AI and brand safety. With his extensive background in entrepreneurship and angel investing, Rob brings a wealth of knowledge and expertise to the table.
 
Time Stamps
[00:43.3] – Rob discusses His career journey and why he founded BrandGuard.
[01:47.5] – Rob goes into detail about BrandGuard, its beginnings and what it does.
[12:33.0] – Rob explains some off the issues with branding in AI content.
[16:10.0] – Who can use BrandGuard? Rob discusses what businesses can benefit.
[18:45.6] – Rob shares his thoughts on how AI is going to change marketing.
[22:59.8] – Rob’s contact details.
 
Follow Rob:
Rob May on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/robmay/
BrandGuard website: https://www.brandguard.ai/
BrandGuard on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/brandguard-ai/
 
Follow Mike:
Mike Maynard on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/mikemaynard/
Napier website: https://www.napierb2b.com/
Napier LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/napier-partnership-limited/
 
If you enjoyed this episode, be sure to subscribe to our podcast for more discussions about the latest in Marketing B2B Tech and connect with us on social media to stay updated on upcoming episodes. We'd also appreciate it if you could leave us a review on your favourite podcast platform.
Want more? Check out Napier’s other podcast - The Marketing Automation Moment: https://podcasts.apple.com/ua/podcast/the-marketing-automation-moment-podcast/id1659211547

Sara Madison, Global Head of Product Marketing at Outbrain, an advertising platform, sat down with Mike to talk all things advertising. She discusses the industry's current challenges, why she believes audience attention will become an increasingly important metric and offers her thoughts on whether LinkedIn is a good use of a B2B advertising budget.
She also discusses her passion for product marketing and how her experience in both large enterprises and start-ups has influenced her career.
 
About Outbrain
Outbrain is a leading technology platform that drives business results by engaging people across the open internet. Outbrain predicts moments of engagement to drive measurable outcomes for advertisers and publishers using AI and machine learning across more than 7,000 online properties globally. Founded in 2006, Outbrain is headquartered in New York with offices in Israel and across the United States, Europe, Asia-Pacific, and South America.
 
About Sara
Sara, who is the Global Head of Product Marketing Outbrain, is a digital media specialist with experience designing and leading strategic initiatives in startups and large organizations. She has a track record helping organizations solve issues, create value, maximize growth and improve business performance with a highly analytical approach.
 
Time Stamps
[00:46.1] – Sara discusses her career journey in marketing.
[03:47.7] – Sara talks about Outbrain, what it is and its capabilities.
[06:48.8] – Sara discusses challenges in the advertising industry.
[13:19.2] – Sara shares how Microsoft successfully used Outbrain to support a campaign.
[17:52.4] – Is LinkedIn a good use of B2B advertising budget? Sara shares her opinions.
[26:11.9] – Sara’s contact details.
 
Quotes
“Approach marketing with an open mind, it's important to be curious and to be open to learning things before committing on a specific path.” Sara Madison, Global Head of Product Marketing at Outbrain.
 
Follow Sara:
Sara Madison on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/sara-madison-21028434/
Outbrain website: https://www.outbrain.com/
Outbrain on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/outbrain/
 
Follow Mike:
Mike Maynard on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/mikemaynard/
Napier website: https://www.napierb2b.com/
Napier LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/napier-partnership-limited/
 
If you enjoyed this episode, be sure to subscribe to our podcast for more discussions about the latest in Marketing B2B Tech and connect with us on social media to stay updated on upcoming episodes. We'd also appreciate it if you could leave us a review on your favourite podcast platform.
Want more? Check out Napier’s other podcast - The Marketing Automation Moment: https://podcasts.apple.com/ua/podcast/the-marketing-automation-moment-podcast/id1659211547

Avetis Ghazaryan, Founder of Growth Hunter, a community for SaaS professionals, shares how momentum marketing can enable marketers to overcome marketing challenges and increase pipeline growth.
Avetis explains what momentum marketing is, shares some strategies on how to stand out, and offers some advice on how to maximise impact.
 
About Growth Hunter
Growth Hunter is a resource for SaaS professionals to learn, share knowledge and find inspiration for high-demand impact and momentum marketing.
 
About Avetis
Avetis Ghazaryan is the founder of Growth Hunter with over a decade of experience helping SaaS companies developed impactful sales and marketing processes by tapping into high-congregation events.
 
Time Stamps
[00:47.2] – Avetis discusses his career journey and the events that lead to founding Growth Hunter.
[07:31.3] – Avetis explains what momentum marketing is.
[12:25.1] – Avetis shares the tactics marketers can use to keep up with momentum marketing.
[14:41.4] – How can you stand out on a topic everyone is discussing? Avetis offers his tips.
[20:02.0] – Avetis shares some marketing advice.
[22:24.5] – Avetis contact details.
 
Quotes
“If you keep obsessing over understanding your buyer, their needs on a personal level, there is a lot to gain as a marketer.” Avetis Ghazaryan, founder of Growth Hunter
 
Follow Avetis:
Avetis Ghazaryan on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/avetisghazaryan/
MRP website: https://www.growthhunter.com/
MRP on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/growth-hunter-official/
 
Follow Mike:
Mike Maynard on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/mikemaynard/
Napier website: https://www.napierb2b.com/
Napier LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/napier-partnership-limited/
 
If you enjoyed this episode, be sure to subscribe to our podcast for more discussions about the latest in Marketing B2B Tech and connect with us on social media to stay updated on upcoming episodes. We'd also appreciate it if you could leave us a review on your favourite podcast platform.
Want more? Check out Napier’s other podcast - The Marketing Automation Moment: https://podcasts.apple.com/ua/podcast/the-marketing-automation-moment-podcast/id1659211547
 
 

Chris Rack, CEO of MRP, a demand generation solution, joins Mike Maynard to discuss intent signals, lead generation, and how MRP can help accelerate B2B businesses' demand generation activities. 
Chris explains the benefits of aggregating different intent signal sources and why this can work better across different industries and services. He shares why direct mailers may be the best strategy when targeting C-level personas and why sales remain a vital ingredient in the sales/marketing mix. 
About MRP MRP is a demand generation platform connecting assumptive and deterministic engagement signals to help brands identify target accounts with the highest likelihood for conversion. 
Time Stamps [00:39.0] – Chris discusses his current role at MRP and his career journey.[01:18.1] – Chris dives straight into what MRP delivers for its customers. [07:45.4] – Chris offers his insights into how to target the bottom of the sales funnel.[14:05.0] – Sales is here to stay – Chris gives his thoughts on the vital role sales continues to play.[17:38.3] – Chris discusses how MRP approaches its own marketing. [20:55.8] – Chris shares some marketing advice.[22:33.6] – Chris’s contact details.
Quotes “Most of the conversations happening in B2B sales and marketing are about tactic... but those things are generally irrelevant if you have good timing.” Chris Rack, CEO at MRP.
“If you happen to know that a company is really, truly interested or has a challenge that your product can solve and you reach out to them - if your timing is good, your conversion rates are almost always good.” Chris Rack, CEO at MRP.
Follow Chris: Chris Rack on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/christopherrack/ MRP website: https://www.mrpfd.com/about-mrp/  MRP on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/mrpfd/ 
Follow Mike: Mike Maynard on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/mikemaynard/ Napier website: https://www.napierb2b.com/ Napier LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/napier-partnership-limited/ 
If you enjoyed this episode, be sure to subscribe to our podcast for more discussions about the latest in Marketing B2B Tech and connect with us on social media to stay updated on upcoming episodes. We'd also appreciate it if you could leave us a review on your favourite podcast platform.
Want more? Check out Napier’s other podcast - The Marketing Automation Moment: https://podcasts.apple.com/ua/podcast/the-marketing-automation-moment-podcast/id1659211547 

Nathan Schlaffer, CEO and Founder of MarketMate AI, joined Mike to discuss his generative AI marketing automation platform that enables B2B marketers to connect with their buyer personas.
Nathan delves into Marketmate’s unique features, and how users can create buyer personas on the platform, which enable them to refine messaging and use generative AI which is tailored directly for the persona. He also shares practical advice on how to use AI to enhance marketing strategy and execution.
Listen to the podcast now via the links below:
About MarketMate AI
MarketMate AI is an AI marketing solution specifically for B2B. The software is unlike any other AI platform and is a marketing solution which tailors content for the clients wants and needs.
About Nathan
As the CEO and Co-Founder of MarketMate AI, Nathan is an advocate about the use of AI to connect marketing and sales. He brings ten years of expertise in aiding B2B SaaS firms in revenue growth and marketing team expansion.
Time Stamps
[00:42.00] – Nathan discusses his history and MarketMate AI.
[05:02.00] – Find out how to use AI to generate content for marketing campaigns.
[09:37.00] – Nathan discusses creating buyer personas with MarketMate AI and refining messaging.
[14:52.00] – Learn how MarketMate AI can be used for branding
[15:50.00] – Nathan shares the story behind MarketMate AI.
Quotes
“If you can take an AI model and train it on that market knowledge and insight, imagine the productivity gains you can get for having a new hire learn from the AI and have it write content.”
Follow Nathan:
Nathan Schlaffer on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nathanschlaffer/
MarketMate AI website: https://www.marketmateai.com/
MarketMate AI on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/marketmate-ai-llc/
Follow Mike:
Mike Maynard on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/mikemaynard/
Napier website: https://www.napierb2b.com/
Napier LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/napier-partnership-limited/
If you enjoyed this episode, be sure to subscribe to our podcast for more discussions about the latest in Marketing B2B Tech and connect with us on social media to stay updated on upcoming episodes. We'd also appreciate it if you could leave us a review on your favourite podcast platform.Want more? Check out Napier’s other podcast - The Marketing Automation Moment: https://podcasts.apple.com/ua/podcast/the-marketing-automation-moment-podcast/id1659211547

Asaf Darash, CEO of Regpack, and Kirsty Dawe, CEO of B2B website personalisation software Webeo, join Mike to discuss their collaborative project and how Webeo's software enables Regpack to increase website conversion rates and enhance the customer experience.
A great success story, the project demonstrates the impact personalisation can have on lead quality and Asaf and Kirsty share their advice on undertaking similar projects.
 
About Regpack
Regpack is an online registration, payment, and user management system that enables organisations to register applicants quickly and effectively.
 
About Webeo
Webeo is a software tool enabling B2B businesses to increase website conversions through personalisation.
 
About Asaf Darash:
Asaf Darash is the founder and CEO of Regpack. With extensive experience as an entrepreneur and investor, he has built three successful companies to date. He specialises in product development for the web, team building, and bringing a company from a concept to profitability. His specialties include extreme programming, programming languages, JavaScript, MongoDB, system structures and new media, enabling him to build versatile products based on achievable business models. He holds a PhD in New Media from Hebrew University of Jerusalem and has served as a visiting scholar at the University of California, Berkeley. 
 
About Kirsty Dawe:
Kirsty Dawe is the CEO of Webeo, B2B website personalisation software that delivers a proven solution to the website conversion problem in B2B. Webeo’s software helps B2B organisations increase website leads by delivering a highly relevant, personalised experience to the B2B buyer as soon as they hit the website and tailoring that journey as they move through the funnel. Before Webeo, Kirsty held the role of Managing Director of award-winning agency Really B2B for 15 years. She has extensive knowledge and skills in B2B marketing, website customization, business growth, technology innovation, and full marketing mix in various sectors.
 
Time Stamps
[00:50.02] – Kirsty and Asaf share their respective career journeys.
[05:53.02] – Asaf explains why Regpack needed to work with Webeo to overcome challenges.
[11:24.09] – Kirsty explains how the Webeo platform can personalise website content.
[19:35.05] – Asaf discusses the time and cost investment involved in the project.
[21:14.00] – Kirsty shares the way businesses can ensure personalisation whilst sticking to legislation.  
 
Follow Asaf:
Joe Zappa on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/asafdarash/
Regpack website: https://www.regpacks.com/
Regpack on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/regpack/
 
Follow Kirsty:
Kirsty Dawe on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kirstydawe/
Webeo website: https://www.webeo.com/
Webeo on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/webeoglobal/
 
Follow Mike:
Mike Maynard on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/mikemaynard/
Napier website: https://www.napierb2b.com/
Napier LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/napier-partnership-limited/
 
If you enjoyed this episode, be sure to subscribe to our podcast for more discussions about the latest in Marketing B2B Tech and connect with us on social media to stay updated on upcoming episodes. We'd also appreciate it if you could leave us a review on your favourite podcast platform.
Want more? Check out Napier’s other podcast - The Marketing Automation Moment: https://podcasts.apple.com/ua/podcast/the-marketing-automation-moment-podcast/id1659211547